Young piano artists that become used to the piano third sound are in trouble when they get into choirs, orchestras, and bands. The out of tune 3rd is not permitted in "live" music.
Some musicians that start with the piano and consider it the "model" to place notes in music when they perform in orchestras, choirs, and bands need to understand that a piano third is sharp, The piano third has 7 vibrations (beats) a second.
To make a third in chorus, band, or orchestra the note needs to be lower than a piano third. No vibrations!!!. A smooths sound.
Even more difficult for tunings is that the organ in the church or concert hall is not tuned higher in the higher registers. This makes piano/organ playing difficult in the higher registers.
Keyboards in the recording studeo are also difficult to match because of this problem. Many electronic keyboard can change to different temperaments in their software. But electronic keyboards do not usually have the problem of high notes getting sharper and sharper on purposed. They are tuned like the organ. But arpeggios sound flat when hitting the highest note. Live pianos compensate for this flatness by intensionally tuning "sharp" so that the top note sounds "just fine". But it's sharp. And intentional.
Wow. What a revelation for many conductors and performers. All this time this has been around but "hidden" from everyone. It's like a magic trick.
If you ask a magician now it did the magic trick he might say: "very carefully". Well that is the modern sounds of keyboards today. The temperaments are there in plain listening sight, but it's done so carefully that it isn't noticed.
And if a piano tuner tunes one 3rd combination perfectly for the world's version of perfect, it would sound too plain. It wouldn't have the 7 beat vibration we are so used to hearing.
So next time you go by a piano and play middle c and the e above it, listen for the 7 vibrations. It's amazing. It has been there for centuries but most people are used to that sound. If an oboe and flute were to play those notes like that in a professional orchestra or band they would be fired.
Tuning is much more than listening and adjusting. It also takes a knowledge of what the problems are.
Also many piano tuners make the lower notes lower than normal. Again, this is stretching the octaves. Intentionally sharp to the strobe tuners. So the piano is a volatile instrument in the concert hall. The orchestra has to tune to the pianos inconsistencies. The piano is "fixed". It cannot be changed when performing. So "live" musicians have to compensate.
Part 2 (first) - Examples - Piano Tuning Improved
Reviving The Lost Sounds of Music
Unequal Temperaments Major Thirds and Minor Thirds in different sound colorations in different keys.
The great piano tuners even have special temperaments and special changes they make to have the 9 foot grand pianos sound even better than a "normal modern tuning".
Ask any piano tuner or organ tuner. This is what is being done around the world. This is common everyday knowledge to people in the business.
This web site is dedicated to help orchestra, band, and choral musicians understand how to tune correctly. If these musicians played a piano for many years they might had had "the piano third syndrome" but didn't understand that it needed to be thrown out and not used when they are in a woodwind quintet, chorus, or orchestra. Vibrations should not be present when playing 3rds. They sound be smoother, just like 4ths 5ths, and octaves.
French Horn ensemble - open chords
Tuning concentration is essential for ensembles
"Live tuning" makes chords work correctly by making them "hollow out the sound" without vibrations. This is only produced by performers adjusting, making octaves "perfect". The same principal is used for "perfect" 4ths and "perfect" 5ths. Each chord has to be adjusted and hollowed out to make an "open sound".